AM: There is a popular and rather naïve belief that when the whole system, the Spectacle, will start to run out of energy–oil, gas and other resources–it will gradually loosen its grip on people’s minds and throats. The Media may still be there, the Capital will be there but they will be weak and disintegrated, and so society will inevitably break down into small autonomous collectives, not controlled by the outside world.
HB: Well, the attitudes are changing but the problem is–and now I can speak about the situation here locally–since I have been living here for 6–7 years, I have some insights–and that is that these attitudes are informed by reformism. They are not informed by a critique of capitalism or even of technology. The Green Party is a good example; basically, it’s a hobby group for losers. Here, by strange circumstances, we have a Green Party village government. I am still glad for that, I guess, but so far they haven’t accomplished anything here, except for some symbolic stuff. And the reason for this, I think, is that people of this reformist tendency are not really interested in building real alternative institutions.
For example, this movement is not taking place through labor unions, or food-cooperatives, or producers-cooperatives; it’s not taking place through free schools or alternative schools. It’s not taking place through autonomous action!
Look at the organic food situation: the big companies have already discovered that the organic food is a market and they’re in it, they’re marketing it. And for most of the consumers of organic food this is not a political issue. It’s a health issue. So they don’t care; if Monsanto is going to sell them health food–they’ll buy it from Monsanto. In other words, these nice impulses, these changing attitudes–some of which are forced on people by economic difficulties, as you pointed out, and some of which are voluntary, assumed out of a lifestyle or even out of consumerist attitude towards the authentic
and the organic
and the alternative
, which after all is a market–it all runs into the sand, all the energy runs into the sand.
People with wonderful attitudes and desires that are good desires; but since there is no comprehensive movement, there’s nothing other than these positive attitudes
and there’s no way to focus them.
I went to a Peace March yesterday–it was the anniversary of the beginning of the war in Iraq. I swear it was like being back in the 60s again: same clothes, same slogans:
–What do we want?
–Peace!
–When do we want it?
–Now!
We’ve been saying this for 40 years and we still haven’t realized that symbolic action and symbolic discourse is NOT Action!
And this is even better: there was a counter-demonstration, and the anti-demonstrators were yelling at us that we were communists! This is like a civil war reenactment; it’s like people in medieval costumes pretending to be knights and ladies. Totally bizarre. I haven’t been going to demonstrations lately, so I thought maybe a few things have changed. But no! It’s just a blast from the past
–for everybody, including the fascists who thought that they were still living in 1979. Very strange.
And this is it! You go, you have a march, you say: Not in my name!
And then you go home and watch TV. You don’t then go out and start an alternative institution: a church, a farm, a commune….
AM: A pleasure club.
HB: Or even a pleasure club! Instead, they just go home and watch TV.
AM: And then they go to work and get their salaries from the same people who are waging the war. And the taxes go to war, of course.
HB: Exactly! And of course, you NEED your SUV; you NEED your cellular phone. These are real needs. So all these so-called green people
around here are sucking up gasoline and cement…. Just not in my backyard
–that’s what they say. They are not going to swear off using cement. They will say: Move the cement plant to Mexico
. I can’t participate in this pseudo-politics; there is no entry-point for me here.
